HERE AND THERE: Excerpts from an interview
By Amma Ogan
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Setting: Villaska Lodge, Ikoyi, Lagos on a Saturday in July 1989.
Why did you join the army?
An army, as far as I was concerned was supposed to protect the community that pays it. In my own peculiar case my joining the army was a protest. Peculiar not because it is a protest because there have been many people joining the army as a protest, protest on family control, protest because they failed their exams and so on.
What was your protest about?
My protest was actually against what I considered the wrong direction, the fragmentation of Nigeria. I went into the army against regionalisation of Nigeria. I looked to give my service to the only viable federal institution. I couldn't become a prison warder or a policeman. The only one that was left was the army and I went for it.
You joined in protest against regionalisation and ended up becoming the leader of a region?
It did not really matter where it led, either against my own personal interest and the perceived wisdom of the day; I knew that my duty lay in the protection of the people entrusted to me.
When you left Biafra for Cote d'Ivoire did you think you were going away to come back?
Yes. I always refuse to go into details about the past because of many reasons people are now beginning to see. But in actual fact when you are leading an enterprise such as I led, you cannot lead it effectively if you did not believe you were going to win. Once you start having self doubt you cease to lead - and I made no bones about it-right to the last minute I continued believing that we would win in spite of anything. The realities the first day were pretty bleak. We had no weapons, we had nothing, but we kept on fighting. And in any case what are you fighting for? You are fighting for your own war aims. And the war aims of Biafra were never the conquest of territory as such. It was the survival of a people. And even with these, with ehm, the other side encircling us, we were still very much hoping that perhaps world opinion, whatever it is, would save these people. This is how we felt.
You felt betrayed when you left Biafra?
Ehm, I have always refused to pass judgement on those that I left behind. During a war the situation changes very rapidly. At the time I was leaving there was absolutely no reason for surrender. But then, in six hours, something could have happened. I don't know. It is possible in a fluid situation and given the unequalness in this conflict. I left ostensibly because the situation was bad, to seek, ehm, and support of France through the intermediary of the Ivory Coast. We had hoped that what would happen would be that France would contact England and we would probably arrive if not to cease, I mean ehm we expected to have a ceasefire at least, then to go on negotiating the type of settlement that was acceptable. And at that time the one thing that was not acceptable was capitulation without guarantees for the lives of our people.
Why did you leave?
It was decided that because of the urgency of the situation, that the only person who demanded immediate audience and got (it) outside, was myself.
Was that a consensus or you had to agree?
I had to agree because the original team did not include me. And then after the cabinet came back again at different points and finally, it was in fact not at all, ehm, it was almost, well it was not a consensus because I was the only dissenting voice.
Did you think you knew everything of what was going on?
It is entirely silly to think that throughout managing such a vast activity with so many millions of people that I would know everything that went on. No, far from it and I don't believe any leader on this earth could know everything that was going on,
Did you think you had a good grasp of the situation?
I had a very good grasp of the essentials. Yes. There is no doubt about that. The essentials. Yes.
By Amma Ogan
print email
Setting: Villaska Lodge, Ikoyi, Lagos on a Saturday in July 1989.
Why did you join the army?
An army, as far as I was concerned was supposed to protect the community that pays it. In my own peculiar case my joining the army was a protest. Peculiar not because it is a protest because there have been many people joining the army as a protest, protest on family control, protest because they failed their exams and so on.
What was your protest about?
My protest was actually against what I considered the wrong direction, the fragmentation of Nigeria. I went into the army against regionalisation of Nigeria. I looked to give my service to the only viable federal institution. I couldn't become a prison warder or a policeman. The only one that was left was the army and I went for it.
You joined in protest against regionalisation and ended up becoming the leader of a region?
It did not really matter where it led, either against my own personal interest and the perceived wisdom of the day; I knew that my duty lay in the protection of the people entrusted to me.
When you left Biafra for Cote d'Ivoire did you think you were going away to come back?
Yes. I always refuse to go into details about the past because of many reasons people are now beginning to see. But in actual fact when you are leading an enterprise such as I led, you cannot lead it effectively if you did not believe you were going to win. Once you start having self doubt you cease to lead - and I made no bones about it-right to the last minute I continued believing that we would win in spite of anything. The realities the first day were pretty bleak. We had no weapons, we had nothing, but we kept on fighting. And in any case what are you fighting for? You are fighting for your own war aims. And the war aims of Biafra were never the conquest of territory as such. It was the survival of a people. And even with these, with ehm, the other side encircling us, we were still very much hoping that perhaps world opinion, whatever it is, would save these people. This is how we felt.
You felt betrayed when you left Biafra?
Ehm, I have always refused to pass judgement on those that I left behind. During a war the situation changes very rapidly. At the time I was leaving there was absolutely no reason for surrender. But then, in six hours, something could have happened. I don't know. It is possible in a fluid situation and given the unequalness in this conflict. I left ostensibly because the situation was bad, to seek, ehm, and support of France through the intermediary of the Ivory Coast. We had hoped that what would happen would be that France would contact England and we would probably arrive if not to cease, I mean ehm we expected to have a ceasefire at least, then to go on negotiating the type of settlement that was acceptable. And at that time the one thing that was not acceptable was capitulation without guarantees for the lives of our people.
Why did you leave?
It was decided that because of the urgency of the situation, that the only person who demanded immediate audience and got (it) outside, was myself.
Was that a consensus or you had to agree?
I had to agree because the original team did not include me. And then after the cabinet came back again at different points and finally, it was in fact not at all, ehm, it was almost, well it was not a consensus because I was the only dissenting voice.
Did you think you knew everything of what was going on?
It is entirely silly to think that throughout managing such a vast activity with so many millions of people that I would know everything that went on. No, far from it and I don't believe any leader on this earth could know everything that was going on,
Did you think you had a good grasp of the situation?
I had a very good grasp of the essentials. Yes. There is no doubt about that. The essentials. Yes.
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